Hey all, I did a new Japanese translation with my friend. He was born in Japan with an American mother and Japanese father. Moved to the US to go to NYU and has been here since. Pretty reliable source for this kind of thing. We had a lot of fun doing this, and we added some additional comments that I think will clear up some of the issues with past translations. https://www.dropbox.com/s/sk972w0wep579 ... .pdf?raw=1

Thanks for doing this and making it available. It's all about the nuances...

Thanks!...interesting translation regarding “sovereign people.” Rather than directing us to find the actual book from which it came, he tells us to go to a dictionary of quotations. I guess what I am getting at is the intent of this quote. Was Preiss providing a specific clue about NO or a using this quotation in a similar context (ie to describe a palatial hotel) as it was in Abroad in America. We take other people’s quotations and use them in our speech writing and essays. They help highlight points we are making. I only bring it up because this clue has significantly impacted people’s opinion regarding verse/image pairings. I am still not convinced his intent was to describe New Orleans.

Unknown: I am still not convinced his intent was to describe New Orleans. I'd find this line of thinking much more compelling if there was only one quote from "Abroad in America". But there are two, and both literally reference intended casque cities. Remind me again what BP said about fairy secrets? Step 2B is harder than Step 2A by design, but it's not hard, unless you make it so.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I'd find this line of thinking much more compelling if there was only one quote from "Abroad in America". But there are two, and both literally reference intended casque cities. Remind me again what BP said about fairy secrets? Step 2B is harder than Step 2A by design, but it's not hard, unless you make it so. It absolutely describes New Orleans.

Unknown: It absolutely describes New Orleans. Whether the quote describes New Orleans is besides the point. If that was his intent, he could have used any number of quotes about the city. But he choose this one, specifically because it has "New Orleans" in it. And he choose another quote from the same book for the same exact reason. He didn't want you guessing about something so fundamental to the solving of the puzzle.

With regard to the clues: "One more thing. We got some special advice from Mr. Preese for our japanese readers. That is to start by solving the pictures/paintings. To do so, you must decode the poem by solving the combinations of numbers that are in the poems." It stands to reason that if this is meant to be a starting point, then it should be one of the puzzle's most accessible clue sets. And yet, no one has been able to come up with a reasonable explanation of how the numbers in the Verses work. By contrast, we know from the historical evidence that it was Fox's discovery of the latitudinal and longitudinal clues in the Images that really began to solidify our understanding of the puzzle, at least with regard to which cities were in play: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1081 . And it's only after you have identified the cities that the verses can be used with any degree of certainty. With regard to the Japanese hints, I think they are mostly a distraction, regardless of how accurately they are translated. But with regard to the information quoted above, I think it is flat-out wrong.

Great job phrabbott! Speaking only to the translation of what was actually written (rather than hint interpretations and any being true/not true) - It's really interesting to see where things very much agree with the earlier translation vs. the subtle differences. Nice work.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: With regard to the clues: "One more thing. We got some special advice from Mr. Preese for our japanese readers. That is to start by solving the pictures/paintings. To do so, you must decode the poem by solving the combinations of numbers that are in the poems." It stands to reason that if this is meant to be a starting point, then it should be one of the puzzle's most accessible clue sets. And yet, no one has been able to come up with a reasonable explanation of how the numbers in the Verses work. By contrast, we know from the historical evidence that it was Fox's discovery of the latitudinal and longitudinal clues in the Images that really began to solidify our understanding of the puzzle, at least with regard to which cities were in play: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1081 . And it's only after you have identified the cities that the verses can be used with any degree of certainty. With regard to the Japanese hints, I think they are mostly a distraction, regardless of how accurately they are translated. But with regard to the information quoted above, I think it is flat-out wrong. Outside of the longitude and latitude clues, I cover matching the verse and image pairs in Section 10 of my Methodology document. I attribute this to user notsoclvr. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6511&p=151058&hilit=Secret+methodology#p151058

After Kenta and I sat down a couple weeks ago to talk through the translation, I did an exercise where I followed instructions directly and tried to see if I/v matches can work with number concept. First I looked at all images and found easily countable things. Then I took these numbers and compared them to numbers in the verses. Surprisingly quite a few lined up so far. I tried not to let preconceptions cloud my pairing. I had trouble with some of the remaining ones and kind of abandoned it, but maybe I’m just missing some things to count. Anyone want to check it out and maybe take a stab at a couple if you think it seems like a viable idea? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H0- ... 7LX-7JWRyI Example: in Chicago I counted all windows. 23. (Ten + thirteen) from verse 12 = 23 Ultimately I think the Japanese editor got confused and it’s false info. But maybe there’s something here?

This is awesome, thank you! Would you mind if I post the file to 12treasures, with credit of course.

Unknown: Ultimately I think the Japanese editor got confused and it’s false info. Unknown: But maybe there’s something here? Most likely. Unlikely. I'll keep an open mind, but I really don't think we need more information on how to solve the easiest and most accessible part of the puzzle. Maps are maps, regardless of whether you live in North America, or Asia.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: but I really don't think we need more information on how to solve the easiest and most accessible part of the puzzle. Au contraire, I believe that finding a definitive way to pair verses would do wonders to forward progress by removing that persistent question at the back of many minds over whether these pairings are indeed all correct or not. Heh, but BP himself could give it to us and people would probably still continue insisting on other pairings. Oh well, an analogy to demonstrate: i search a drawer repeatedly for an object. Then I ask my girlfriend where she put the object. She tells me it’s in the drawer and I immediately find it. That ever happen to anyone here?

phrabbott wrote:: Au contraire, I believe that finding a definitive way to pair verses would do wonders to forward progress by removing that persistent question at the back of many minds over whether these pairings are indeed all correct or not. Heh, but BP himself could give it to us and people would probably still continue insisting on other pairings. Oh well, an analogy to demonstrate: i search a drawer repeatedly for an object. Then I ask my girlfriend where she put the object. She tells me it’s in the drawer and I immediately find it. That ever happen to anyone here? Usually it is because it's in the wrong drawer. Not the one you are 100% sure it should be in.

Unknown: Usually it is because it's in the wrong drawer. Seems to me that you have two choices in this scenario. Start an argument about why it's in the wrong drawer, or thank her for solving your problem, and get on with your day. Considering the amount of work still to be done, the choice seems obvious to me.

So since we are talking about the Japanese Translation again... Here is what I found out about it. The original book obviously didn't sell very well, and Byron sold the Japanese distribution rights to Futami, hoping to recoup some cash... which if I understood correctly he ultimately did. No one from the original book had input on the layout of the Japanese book. The additional images in the Japanese book were not created by JJP or Pierard, Jay did not have input on its design. No one seemed happy about the quality of the book, Though the printing... to me at least... seems really good. Not on par with the originals, but still quite usable. There was only one printing of the Japanese book, though multiple slipcovers were made for different markets. The translator for the book does not remember his conversation with Byron, and did not keep notes or records. He did not see this as a special assignment... it was just another translation job for him.

burnstyle wrote:: The translator for the book does not remember his conversation with Byron, and did not keep notes or records. He did not see this as a special assignment... it was just another translation job for him. That's so weird because he clearly has opinions on the clues themselves. I really got a fanboy vibe like someone very interested in solving the clues and not just translating them. But who knows I guess? Fun aside: My friend said it was weird to read just because there's all sorts of 80's slang haha. Picturing the equivalent in America, I can only imagine.

phrabbott wrote:: That's so weird because he clearly has opinions on the clues themselves. I really got a fanboy vibe like someone very interested in solving the clues and not just translating them. But who knows I guess? Fun aside: My friend said it was weird to read just because there's all sorts of 80's slang haha. Picturing the equivalent in America, I can only imagine. I should expand on that. He remembers the conversation, and remembers the job, but doesn't remember anything special about it.

Unknown: The translator for the book does not remember his conversation with Byron, and did not keep notes or records. And what if he had? This is not a cold case people. This is an active puzzle that while difficult, can still be solved almost 40 years after its inception. Speaking only for myself, I find the search for, and acceptance of information that is clearly outside of the puzzle and BP's intent somewhat disturbing. Can we agree that those who would do that are really no longer interested in solving the puzzle, but merely getting the answer to the question "how does this puzzle work"?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: And what if he had? This is not a cold case people. This is an active puzzle that while difficult, can still be solved almost 40 years after its inception. Speaking only for myself, I find the search for, and acceptance of information that is clearly outside of the puzzle and BP's intent somewhat disturbing. Can we agree that those who would do that are really no longer interested in solving the puzzle, but merely getting the answer to the question "how does this puzzle work"? C'mon. Back in the 80s, we sought out Japanese editions of vinyl records because they sometimes had different versions of the songs, or liner notes. Why wouldn't the book be fair game? BP was clearly involved with it to some extent.

Unknown: Why wouldn't the book be fair game? I wasn't talking about the book gMan. Anything in the public domain is fair game as far as I'm concerned and if there's information to be gleaned from those sources, it's because BP wanted that information out there IMO. I'm talking about private conversations between the books creators that were never meant to be shared. People are free to draw the line anywhere they feel comfortable. That's where I draw mine.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I wasn't talking about the book gMan. Anything in the public domain is fair game as far as I'm concerned and if there's information to be gleaned from those sources, it's because BP wanted that information out there IMO. I'm talking about private conversations between the books creators that were never meant to be shared. People are free to draw the line anywhere they feel comfortable. That's where I draw mine. That's completely reasonable.